Curse

Neriandal Freit · Sep 11, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Let's all have a chit-chat about our four favorite envoys shall we?

Speculation to where they've come from for example. Why is it they have so much power? Are they a group that is picked by Grenth him self? etc.etc.

Rathcail · Sep 11, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Herald Demrikov has a nice beard and whatever that is going through his head is just lovely.

Chris A · Sep 11, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

im just gonna say right now, i think the envoys are working for Dhumn/Menzies and were apart of manipulating Shiro to do their dirty work.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 12, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I believe the Envoy's are a neutral enities rather then being play-things for Dhumn or Menzies.

Goats17 · Sep 12, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Weren't there more of them? Oh well.

lapsus · Sep 12, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Lol, im kinda intreseted in the minotaur looking Envoy, wonder what his whole story is....

Numa Pompilius · Sep 12, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

The whole afterlife thing in GW doesn't really make sense.

The envoys "ushers souls into the UW"? They're not needed, we know that much because there's at least two quests in Prophecies where _you_ enable ghosts to go to the UW (North Wall mission and the one you get from Dwayna in Sardelac).
Also all the envoys seem decidedly evil to me.

Then the UW is a pretty sucky place for an afterlife. It's not hell, but it's definitely not heaven either. It's just ugly and dull (from the POV of the ghosts there).

And where do ghosts go when they're killed?

I guess one could argue that the UW is like "the dry land" in Ursula K LeGuins books, ie that's where a persons personality and memory ends up to slowly wither away, while the persons true essence goes elsewhere. The UW also has some similarities to the norse hell, in that it's more a storage place than a place of punishment, and in that it's ruled by a god that's not truly evil.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 12, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Well, we have to keep in mind that places like Underworld and Fissure are currently being attacked by former/current beings of Dhumn and Menzies, so the Underworld is perhaps meant to be a more peaceful place (In which we can argue that Grenth is trying to work on considering how evil Dhumn was).

But you do make a point, why did Shiro become an envoy to keep a neautrality when he killed an emperor and brought forth the Jade Wind, along with the plague?

Now, personaly, it looks to me like Messenger Ventaura can be a style that we see in Nightfall/Elonia.

bigwig · Sep 13, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

The whole afterlife thing in GW doesn't really make sense.

The envoys "ushers souls into the UW"? They're not needed, we know that much because there's at least two quests in Prophecies where _you_ enable ghosts to go to the UW (North Wall mission and the one you get from Dwayna in Sardelac).
Also all the envoys seem decidedly evil to me.

Then the UW is a pretty sucky place for an afterlife. It's not hell, but it's definitely not heaven either. It's just ugly and dull (from the POV of the ghosts there).

And where do ghosts go when they're killed?

I guess one could argue that the UW is like "the dry land" in Ursula K LeGuins books, ie that's where a persons personality and memory ends up to slowly wither away, while the persons true essence goes elsewhere. The UW also has some similarities to the norse hell, in that it's more a storage place than a place of punishment, and in that it's ruled by a god that's not truly evil.

Of the ghost quests i can think of, the ghosts still have unresolved issues in the living world that we resolve. Since the envoys are invisible or visible at will, apparently, whos to say that after we resolve their problems the envoys don't take care of the rest?

As for them being evil, thats entirely subjective, theres no evidence to suggest they are anything but neutral.

Xenrath · Sep 13, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I was wondering the same thing myself in a seperate thread how come Shiro became an envoy and had so much power over living and dead alike. It was suggested maybe being an Envoy isn't so much an honour as a curse or punishment.

Still not sure why they'd have powers like Shiro did though, seems a bit much to give to someone as punishment.

Pick Me · Sep 13, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I like Courier Torivos.

I think Envoys are like the Ferryman. Once you cross over to the otherside, you must be "escorted" to your final destination. In Greek Mythology, Chiron is the Ferryman that takes spirits across the river Styx to be judged by Hades (where the spirits are sent to Tartarus or Elisian Fields).

When people see the spirits (like the bonus mission of Sanctum Cay or Abaddon's Mouth), you must escort them to "the other side", where the Envoys will take them to be judged.

Now if the Envoys have already received the judgement call from the "gods", then they just escort the spirits to their final destination.

Do you think the Envoys are "Death/Grim Reapers"? If its your time to go, they will kill your body, either by too many wounds, poison, bleeding, lag, etc. Shiro abused his power and thus shirked his responsibilities. He had more power than he did when he was alive, so he became totally corrupted.

Being an Envoy, I would think, is an honor. Why would you punish bad people by giving them power?

Beckii-Chan! · Sep 13, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I wanna know why Herald Demrikov has a hole in his head

Numa Pompilius · Sep 13, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

A thought just occurred to me... There are five envoys? One for each god?

Goats17 · Sep 13, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I think those are just the ones responsible for Cantha IMHO.

And I was really suprised that there wasn't an Envoy named Charon. That would have been a tribute to an amazing myth.

EDIT: Changed Chiron to Charon. I need to read my greek myth books again.

Blazing · Sep 13, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

If you havent notissed by now Guild Wars leaves many unanswered questions in its chapters. But i think all these questions will have its answer in the future cause they can all mean something ''bigger'' to the whole GUILD WARS WORLD & not from single continents.

Anet its using, from what i know, two major teams. One of them has created Phrofecies & its working In Nightfall & the other is the Factions team.

So we have the tyrian continent that its right by Elona´s side. Then we have Cantha with an unknown portion of land left to show.

Maybe each team will, from chapter to chapter, answer old questions while making new ones aswell. I think some of the Profecies questions will end in nightfall (i actually just hope) & the south Canthan lands questions will be answered in later chapters (each team answers its questions).

Maybe in the great finnaly (for many years to come

) the two teams will be together & end this saga, leading to the begining of a whole new saga.

Or everything i said is wrong & things will be in mistery for ever, as fun as can look like at the begining i would prefer to have this questions answered, at least the ones that can afect the way we see the world & if makes it make sense, cause somethings in the game just dont...

But thats just me

Urban_Nomad · Sep 14, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Being an Envoy, I would think, is an honor. Why would you punish bad people by giving them power?

Why would someone who is being granted an honor and has power want to give it up?

The Envoys mention that they escort the dead to paradise (obviously not the Underworld, I would think, but that's another subject). It doesn't, however, seem like THEY get to go to paradise. Imagine spending eternity escorting spirits to this amazing place that you're forbidden from entering (this is all speculation, of course, it just makes sense to me).

People always ask why the all-powerful undead guy wants to be mortal again, it happens in a lot of games/books/etc., but no one ever thinks that maybe being a spirit isn't all that great?

Obviously if Shiro wanted to become mortal again there must be something he prefers to being human over being a spirit, so from that it can be assumed that there are things unpleasant about being an Envoy, the above things mentioned were just an idea as to what they could be.

Song Rui · Sep 14, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

It's Charon, Not Chiron. Chiron was the centaur that trained several heroes.

Mark Nevermiss · Sep 14, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Shiro wanted to be mortal again because he maily wanted to be able to exact revenge with his own hands, not by relying on the afflicted. Also for the sweet revenge of being brought back by again shedding Imperial blood [paradox?].
He obviously [from the last cinematic] thought he couldnt be stripped of his envoy status once he dies again.
Why Shiro was made into an envoy in the first place defies explanation.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 14, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Which means that we all have to presume that being Envoy's is a neutrality, or, a curse to those who do great harm who must do an eternity (perhaps) of servitude to redeem their deeds.

But, like Mark said, Shiro simply wanted to do things with his own flesh then the flesh of others. He thought he bested the Envoy's and knew all he needed to, when we all know the outcome of that.

Pick Me · Sep 14, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Why would someone who is being granted an honor and has power want to give it up?

The Envoys mention that they escort the dead to paradise (obviously not the Underworld, I would think, but that's another subject). It doesn't, however, seem like THEY get to go to paradise. Imagine spending eternity escorting spirits to this amazing place that you're forbidden from entering (this is all speculation, of course, it just makes sense to me).

People always ask why the all-powerful undead guy wants to be mortal again, it happens in a lot of games/books/etc., but no one ever thinks that maybe being a spirit isn't all that great?

Obviously if Shiro wanted to become mortal again there must be something he prefers to being human over being a spirit, so from that it can be assumed that there are things unpleasant about being an Envoy, the above things mentioned were just an idea as to what they could be.

I understand your point. However, to me if a god asked you to escort the newly departed to paradise, how would you answer? I would think if a god asked me that and gave me the responsiblities to send people to paradise I would jump at the chance. After all, a god wouldn't just ask anyone, would they?

As far as giving up the power to be mortal, there are several reasons to this. As pointed out, many undead villians seek their mortality back (for whatever reason). This maybe because what they truly want, they can only obtain it in the physical world - through mortality. Spirits cannot touch, be touched and often cannot be seen or heard by mortals. Being an Envoy gives you great power, but it doesn't give you everything. Shiro may not be able to drink rice wine, eat cake, or smell the fresh cut grass in a breeze spring day. He may wish to be able to experience things again, like he did as a mortal. He may wish to avoid punishment in the spirit world, and inorder to do so, he may need to be mortal again (we don't know what he has done in the spirit world, but the plague couldn't be something that Shiro could do immediately. He must have had some time to perfect that technique).

And, sorry, my bad. Charon is what I ment to spell.

Oh well, just my theory.